Walkera Super CP
From RC Helicopter Wiki
This wiki page tries to concentrate information found in forum posts (mainly on rcgroups.com) and other sources.
Some experience is directly contributed here, so some parts look more like a forum post than a wiki page.
I can't include clickable links, so you have to copy and paste them or use some browser extension.
Pros and Cons (compared with similar sized collective pitch helis)
- it can be bought bundled with programmable transmitters, most of which can be used with other brands. Especially the Devo7E and the Devo 10 have very good performance/price ratio. See Transmitters below.
- it's probably the easiest to control (for a collective pitch heli). The stability can be increased with a pot on the RX.
- it's durable. It can crash without usually breaking and has no particularly week points.
- the servos are cheap
- you can enable battery voltage telemetry, but you have to buy 2 adapters to update the receiver firmware
- it can be easily converted to brushless without frame modifications
- it's not so powerful
- some people have problems with motor durability, like a few tenths of flights
- it's not the best for (mild) 3D.
There are no videos of anyone flipping it in a small room (this is not a problem unless you are an experienced pilot).I stand corrected: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zc_ZvzzXdM
- the usual brushless conversion with a C05 11500KV motor it's not very powerful
- it seems that brushless conversions with more powerful motors can be problematic
The Super CP is sold as BNF or bundled with programmable transmitters, like Devo 7E, Devo 10 and maybe others.
On Walkera DEVO 6/6S/7e/8/8S/10/12/12S can be installed the alternative open source firmware Deviation, see www.deviationtx.com.
If you want to install Deviation avoid the Devo 7 (which is different from the Devo 7E).
The Devo 7E is small, has limited power (7mW), has only 2 2-position switches and has not enough memory for all the features of Deviation, but it's cheaper, light, has telemetry, vibration alarm and uses 4 AA batteries.
The Devo 10 is full size, full power, has telemetry, vibration alarm and is relatively cheap. It uses 8 AA batteries, unless is converted to LiPO or LiFe.
The Devo 7E by default has the Throttle Hold switch on the left, but it's possible to use the right switch. I assume it's the same with the other transmitters. With Deviation you can use any switch for any function.
Like competitors, Walkera does not include transmitter batteries.
The Devo 7E and Devo 10 work with AA cells.
For heavy use it's better to buy low discharge NiMH batteries and an intelligent charger.
Some people convert the Devo 10 to LiPO or (better) LiFe, but a different intelligent charger is needed.
Devo settings for the Super CP
For Tom Zadar settings for the Super CP with Walkera Devo firmware see his site: www.rcproreviews.com
The settings are the same for the Mini CP and Super CP:
and other pages.
Deviation settings for the Super CP
On the Deviation forum, in the "Model Config" section, there are downloadable settings for Walkera helis, including the Super CP.
For example in the threads started by Tom Zadar:
In the "Tutorial" section there is a post on "How to create a "sticky" Throttle Hold":
Out of the box the Super CP has telemetry disabled, but the RX firmware can be updated to enable voltage telemetry.
The firmware and the software to update it (DfuSe) can be downloaded from the Walkera site www.walkera.com.
To update the RX you have to buy 2 adapters (some vendors sell them together):
- Walkera UP02 Adapter
- UP02 Adapter USB Cable
they can be used with other Walkera helis and quads.
There are incompatibilities between the DfuSe software from Walkera (at least until version 1.6) and some USB devices. For example with version 1.6 I have to temporarily remove the dongle of the Logitech MK260 wireless keyboard + mouse combo and use another mouse, while version 2.0 works normally.
Walkera has not requested certifications for the telemetry-enabled firmware, so it may violate your country regulations. This is why it is not enabled by default.
The Super CP is very durable.
Personally, in about 750 flights in my living room I have stripped 4 servos, have bent a tail fin, broken a tail motor holder and slightly damaged the skids. I had many crashes, but maybe the low speed, low height and luck had avoided damages. The main blades are very battered.
But in 27 outdoor flights I stripped 1 servo, bent a tail fin, broken 2 servo holders (the canopy holder arms), splitted a tail boom, damaged a tail motor and damaged a canopy. I fly in a very small park, so I tend to hit trees. Often I lose control after the flips. The Idle Up settings also contributes, so at the simulator I cranked up the D/R to 130%.
Other forum users report damages for example to servos, servo (and canopy) holders, skids (they can be replaced without replacing the main body) and tails.
On Chinese language forums it seems there are reports of fried FETs, but with google translate is difficult to understand what they are saying, they always talk of "floors" (posts), "brothers" (?), "chickens" (helis?), "penis" (helis???), "bangding" (?).
Brushed motor and durability
The stock brushed motor runs very hot (you can't keep your finger on it). Apparently this is normal for brushed motors.
Lubricating the motor bushing can help performance and durability, but the motor still runs hot.
Some users report lack of durability of the motor, like 50 or even 20 flights.
My first motor lasted more than 200 flights, the second one died after 196 flights (in my living room). The performance progressively get worse, you notice this especially if you flip the Super CP. Obviously in your living room it's difficult to notice.
Some users add some kind of DIY aluminum heat sink, apparently it helps, see www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2018053
At least one of the well known vendors sells a (small) heat sink.
Flight duration and batteries
TL;DR: with a stock Super CP and stock batteries you should get 6 minutes of flight, if not, there are some problems (at least at 20 degrees C / 68 degrees F).
Flight times are an indication of the health status of your helis/batteries/chargers.
I started logging flights to find out weak batteries and bad chargers (I found out that the Walkera chargers are better than the MiniPet chargers).
Walkera chargers don't overcharge and with a few of them you can cheaply charge multiple batteries at a time.
I set the telemetry alarm on 3.3V or 3.4V and I stop flying after a few (or not so few) beeps.
With stock batteries and the alarm set at 3.4V the flight is too short, so I set it at 3.3V. Apparently this does not damages them.
With Nanotech batteries, when they are new 3.3V is too low, after 3 beeps the heli falls, while at 3.4V the flight duration is good. Then they degrades rapidly and with 3.4V the flight is too short.
When I connect the battery the telemetry reads 4.1V.
At the end of the flight the telemetry reads 3.6V (or 3.5V for a few seconds), then it stabilizes to 3.7V (Cellmeter-7).
Bad batteries trigger the alarm sooner, so the voltage remains higher, even 3.8V or 3.9V.
Here are my limited statistics (flights mostly in my living room, only the ones stopped with telemetry, 20 degrees C / 68 degrees F or more).
The results are influenced by the health status of the helis, in particular the "FullyMax 250mAh" are better then they appear, now I'm getting more then 7 minutes with brushless motors.
Beware that the Nanotech 300mAh have the polarity reversed and you can fry your (pricey) receiver if you don't swap the wires.
|Battery||All motors||Stock brushed motors||C05M 11500Kv brushless motors|
|Walkera 240mAh 25C||62||06.31.35||06.25||03.55||07.44||58||06.09.34||06.29||03.55||07.44||4||00.22.01||05.30||04.59||05.50|
|Walkera 240mAh 25C||60||05.34.54||05.46||03.23||07.08||59||05.30.06||05.47||03.23||07.08||1||00.04.48||04.48||04.48||04.48|
|Walkera 240mAh 25C||46||04.53.50||06.32||02.37||08.13||41||04.25.57||06.39||02.37||08.13||5||00.27.53||05.35||05.17||05.57|
|Walkera 240mAh 25C||44||04.34.31||06.14||02.31||07.49||38||03.59.58||06.19||02.31||07.49||6||00.34.33||05.46||05.05||06.46|
|Nanotech 240mAh 35C||30||03.08.51||06.18||02.59||07.14||29||03.03.47||06.20||02.59||07.14||1||00.05.04||05.04||05.04||05.04|
|Nanotech 300mAh 35C (dismantled)||8||00.52.28||06.34||06.07||06.50||8||00.52.28||06.34||06.07||06.50|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||26||02.32.19||05.52||02.20||08.00||23||02.21.18||06.09||03.28||08.00||3||00.11.01||03.40||02.20||04.57|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||22||01.35.47||04.34||01.02||07.41||14||01.08.03||05.14||01.41||07.41||8||00.27.44||03.28||01.02||06.36|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||19||01.42.30||05.42||03.15||07.15||13||01.06.53||05.34||03.15||07.15||6||00.35.37||05.56||04.58||06.48|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||16||01.46.13||06.38||04.00||07.51||11||01.10.58||06.27||04.00||07.51||5||00.35.15||07.03||06.14||07.45|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||15||01.13.26||04.54||02.00||06.45||10||00.53.11||05.19||02.00||06.45||5||00.20.15||04.03||03.28||04.57|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||17||01.26.43||05.06||01.22||07.16||11||01.01.41||05.36||02.40||07.16||6||00.25.02||04.10||01.22||06.16|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||12||01.26.39||07.13||05.42||08.13||8||00.58.34||07.19||05.42||08.13||4||00.28.05||07.01||06.12||07.42|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||15||01.06.35||04.45||00.54||07.29||12||00.55.44||05.04||00.54||07.29||3||00.10.51||03.37||01.36||05.07|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||14||01.11.35||05.07||02.02||07.40||10||00.53.30||05.21||02.02||07.40||4||00.18.05||04.31||02.48||06.50|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||14||01.33.16||06.40||04.21||08.21||11||01.16.41||06.58||04.21||08.21||3||00.16.35||05.32||04.37||06.18|
|Nanotech 300mAh 45C||16||01.52.19||07.01||05.42||08.20||13||01.31.12||07.01||05.42||08.20||3||00.21.07||07.02||06.21||07.41|
Notes on the Nanotech 300mAh (beware of the reverse polarity)
Some users report to have successfully removed the black plastic cap.
I tried on one of mines, but I ruined it. The cap is full of glue and there is another piece of black plastic wedged in to keep the battery envelope in. Pulling the cap I stripped the wires from the battery.
Tips for beginners
Throttle Hold and no negative pitch
- Enable Throttle Hold and get used to cut the motor before crashing or as soon as possible. At least on my Devo 7E, Throttle Hold is disabled by default and is located on the left. You must enable it and, if you want, you can configure the TX to use the switch located on the right. With Deviation, you can use any switch.
- Get rid of any negative collective pitch to avoid slamming the helicopter into the ground.
- Set the Throttle Hold pitch curve equal to the normal pitch curve, otherwise the helicopter will jump up or crash down when you pull the switch. Some users, especially the ones that do the "servo saver mod", prefer to set a fixed 0 degrees pitch.
- Avoid pulling down the collective stick when in panic, like you would do with a fixed pitch heli or a micro-quad, use Throttle Hold instead, because when you will use Idle Up (or Stunt Mode) you will slam down your heli with full motor and full negative pitch. If you can, program your transmitters to cut the motor with Throttle Hold even for fixed pitch helis and quads, so you don't learn to pull down the stick.
- Remember to cut the motor with Throttle Hold when the rotors get caught in grass, branches or other objects.
Aileron/Elevator gyro pot
The setting of the gyro pot on the receiver make a big difference for stability and ease of control.
The big flat of the gyro pot is the "tail" of the pointer, the "head" is the small flat opposite the "tail" :).
Turn the pointer clockwise to increase the stability of the Super CP, for example to 9 or 10 o'clock or more, especially if you fly in small spaces.
If the Super CP start shaking violently lower the gyro setting by turning the pointer counterclockwise.
See here for pictures: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1791184&page=176
A Super CP with high gyro gain is MUCH easier to control in small spaces than a FBL80/v933 (unless mine is defective).
See above for links to transmitter settings and choose beginner settings.
- Aileron/elevator: 50-60% with 20-30% expo.
- Rudder: 100% or more.
- Pitch: no negative pitch, max pitch 45-55%.
- Throttle: linear 0-100%.
Beware of accidentally activating Idle Up settings (100% throttle even with stick full down). Probably it is better if you configure Idle Up like normal mode until you actually need it.
It's better to start with simulators and micro-quads
A collective pitch helicopter is much more difficult to use in small spaces than a micro-quad.
I started with simulators, then bought a micro-quad (a mini Pet), initially crashing a lot (no damages).
Then I bought the Super CP and crashed a lot. At the beginning it seemed impossible learning to fly in the small space between the furniture and the table, but now I can fly in circles above table level and I rarely crash.
With more space it should be easier because you have more chances to recover before hitting something (it is easy to overcontrol the heli and hit something in the opposite direction).
Many users recommend to fly over grass to reduce the chance of damages. The Super CP is very small, flying over long grass you might risk loosing it.
Beware that even small heli blades can severely damage eyes.
Not only the heli can hit people, including you, but the blades can detach, for example in case the feathering shaft screw get loose.
Wear glasses at least when tracking blades and don't fly near people. In theory you should always wear glasses.
The blades can cut skin too, especially of small children.
Avoid flying with broken blades and especially avoid the terrible broken blades.
Tips, troubleshooting, etc.
Let the brushed motors cool down between flights
The general consensus appears to be that it's better let the brushed main motor and tail motor cool down about 10 minutes between flights to avoid wearing them.
The brushless motors don't have this problem, but usually the tail motor is brushed so you have to wait anyway.
It helps if you have 2 aircraft, even of different types, so you alternate between them while they cool down.
Check gear and collar after every crash
If your main rotor works but the Super CP doesn't take off, probably the main shaft and maybe the main gear have shifted down during a crash altering the pitch.
Slide something under the main gear, push it up while you push down the rotor head.
Then push up the main gear and push down the shaft collar.
Loosen the shaft collar (or don't)
Some users think that loosening the shaft collar reduce damages to the servos.
Others don't like loose collars and some even glue them.
Actually loose collars can be a problem in inverted flight.
Damages to servos are not always obvious, a stripped servo can appear good but fail under load.
Personally to check them I turn them by hand with the battery disconnected, if they are stripped I can feel immediately.
Many people advise against turning servos by hand and some people are very vocal about it.
Be warned that there is the risk of damaging them, although it never happened to me.
Sometimes servo jerkiness is caused by the connector and reseating it can solve the problem.
A jerky servo can cause vertical movements instead of tilts, because the gyro compensates with the other servos.
You can open the servo-box and exchange broken gear-parts (Walkera Servo Gear of WK-02-4 (Genius/MINI) # WK-SG-02-4).
Servo saver mod
Many Walkera users do the "Servo saver mod" (google it).
Apparently it's not so popular among Super CP users, maybe because the servos are cheap, it's not so easy to do and you have to check and possibly reset the horns after every crash.
The Super CP servos lacking any PCB and electronics cost less to replace, and are for whatever reason less prone to damage. The "servo saver mod" may fail to work as expected, and cause loss of contact between the servo-horn and the servo shaft, and these horns are not sold separately, requiring the whole servo to need replacement.
Mesh between main gear and pinion
The mesh between main gear and pinion must not be too tight or too loose.
The "peaks" of one gear must not touch the bottom of the "valleys" of the other gear. Fully rotate the main gear in case it's slighly deformed.
With the stock motor the head should rotate freely.
The brushless motors are jerky, so you must rely on visual inspection only.
One method is to use a sheet of paper between gear and pinion while mounting the motor.
Here's a video, for another heli, found with google: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqQZXpu4ZDU
Personally I've given up on this method and use visual inspection only.
Many people recommend lubricating the main motor and tail motor bushings or bearings and the other bearings of the heli.
I'm no expert, I lubricate the swashplate too, but I've never lubricated the blade grip bearings because I prefer keeping oil as off as possible from the feathering shaft screw (once I saw big and heavy weighted blades detach from the head).
The negative side is that oil attracts dirt, some people claim that silicon grease does not attract dirt.
Oil can be applied with a siringe.
It's better to clean excess oil to reduce the formation of dirt.
Here's a video from IndooHelli for a different heli and for a different problem, he is cleaning the main bearings and oiling the heli with a siringe: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb2nGfBG72A . It's not necessary to use a hammer for the Super CP :).
Some people recommend breaking-in the brushes of brushed motors (main and tail) for performance and durability.
I'm no expert, I run 1 battery at low speed while on the ground with 0 pitch.
Damaged tracking tapes can cause problems
The small colored tapes on the blades can be damaged during crashes and detach partially.
I didn't bother to remove them and had big problems, not knowing why.
My first Super CP started making noises and losing power, I thought it was the motor and I ordered 2 spares.
One day I somewhat reattached the tapes, and from that day that problem has disappeared. Now I have removed them.
The function of these tapes is rather dubious, and these can be easily removed. For increased blade visibility in flying, the tips can be painted white-out, appliance-white, or similar. Solvent based paints may cause this plastic (polycarbonate?), to become brittle.
Super CPs can start shaking violently, for example if a skid hits the ground, like if the stabilization system start oscillating.
It can happen during flight, especially outdoor. Sometimes I can "shake off the shakes" shaking the cyclic stick.
I assumed it was the high gyro gain, but when I gradually reduced the gain the problem got slightly better but did not disappear.
My second SCP doesn't have this problem.
I swapped the RXs (the screws are very tiny!) and the problem remained with the first SCP body, so it's not the RX.
I disassembled the feathering shaft, but apparently it's not bent.
I swapped the heads and the problem remained with the head, but I still don't know why.
RX board versions
On the back of the board, in the upper right corner, there's the version.
I have versions 2.0, 2.1 and 3.0.
Version 3.0 has an electrolytic capacitor soldered on the back. This release fixes the RX noise issue (source/citation needed). Apparently it doesn't solve problems with brushless motors more powerful than the C05M 11500Kv.
The Super CP does not come with a screwdriver, unlike other similar helis.
The screws are tiny, especially the servo holder screws.
I bought locally a set of Phillips screwdrivers including a #0000 one, but the point of the head is too big and the shape is not right.
Other people have found Phillips screwdrivers that are more ore less adequate.
Apparently you need a JIS (Japan Industrial Standard) screwdriver, see for example www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm
The Pollicis JIS #000 (google it) is the best I could buy, it's generally good for the Super CP, but is barely adequate for the servo holder screws.
A cheap alternative, if you don't mind the long wait, is this: www.banggood.com/Wholesale-SH-6043-RC-Ladybug-Spare-Parts-Screwdriver-A-013-p-63043.html (SKU059635), but usually I use the JIS #000.
Also the K-Tools $1.93 www.banggood.com/1_5mm-2_0mm-Precision-Screwdriver-For-RC-Helicopter-p-918289.html works excellent. Magnetizing the tip with a rare-earth magnet helps holding the screw in place.
The screwdriver that comes with the FBL80/v933 appear to be a cheap regular Phillips.
To Walkera: why do we have to struggle to find a suitable screwdriver when you could easily bundle one like others vendors do, or at least sell it.
And why the hell if JIS screwdrivers are used in Asia, Asian e-commerce sites only sell Phillips screwdrivers?
The HiSky FBL100/WLToys v922 bulleted blades are compatible.
Some users, especially microrcfiend@rcgroups, think they are better, more stable, even though less agile.
I tried the yellow ones in my living room, I found them less stable and difficult to see in artificial yellowish light. I haven't tried them outdoor.
Some users may want to convert to brushless for performance, performance consistency, durability of the motor or because it's cool.
There are posts on www.rcgroups.com on this.
Brushless motors are more durable because they are, well, brushless, but the bearings wear out too.
This is the easiest and apparently the most popular recipe for brushless conversion:
- C05M 11500Kv with Walkera plug
- Walkera WK-WST-10A-LT ESC
- Y cable (to connect the battery with the Rx and the ESC)
- Genius CP main gear
- Plastic 8 teeth pinion
- Optional: preassembled tail with 7mm brushed motor and Super CP rotor
Read on for more info.
It's not clear if the problems affect all the Super CPs and all the ESCs.
- the WK-WST-10A-LT ESC works without modifications if you follow the proper arming/calibration procedure, see below.
- electrical noise on the output of the RX. Solution: use an ESC than can cope with the noise. Some users have experimented with low pass filters (a resistor and a capacitor, search the forums).
- T.Hiro@rcgroups has modified the BLHeli ESC firmware for the Super CP (to work around the RX noise). Resistor and capacitor are not needed anymore. It works on the XP-7A or XP-10A ESC. No RX shutdown voltage, no issue to arm the ESC.
- It seems that, since the board rev 3.0, the RX noise issue is fixed.
- the current draw of the motor can cause low voltage on the RX, that can have problems, for example with gyros, can turn off the motor, loose the binding or reboot. The C05M 11500Kv motor usually works, but more powerful motors tend to cause problems. It seems that the version 3.0 Rx doesn't fixes this.
Tail holding after brushless conversion
It has been reported, mainly by microrcfiend@rcgroups, that after the brushless conversion the tail holding, for example during pitch pumps and flips, is not good.
Afterwards jamichx@rcgroups reported, and microrcfiend@rcgroups confirmed, that using a 9T pinion/standard main gear combination reduces (eliminates?) the problem.
One negative side is that with the popular 8T pinion/GeniusCP main gear combination the flight times are better.
Another negative side is that there are no 9T plastic pinions and the brass pinions are very loose on the shaft and require a retaining compound, see Pinion.
So if you don't yet do flips it's easier (and probably better) to start with an 8T plastic pinion.
Walkera double brushless conversion
The Walkera double (main motor and tail motor) brushless conversion is not appreciated. Sources/citations needed.
There are old posts of people that had problems with Genius CPs or Mini CPs, other posts or videos of people using it, but not for (mild) 3D.
Generally the preferred ESC is the Walkera WK-WST-10A-LT tail ESC, used as a main motor ESC. Apparently is immune to the RX noise.
To use it you have to follow this arming/calibration procedure every flight:
- turn on the TX with the throttle full down, no TH and no Idle Up otherwise your heli will spool up at full speed
- connect the battery
- wait for the twitch (this shows that the Rx is bound and ready)
- wait for a fraction of a second?
- move the throttle full up (so TH must not be activated)
- wait for a fraction of a second?
- move the throttle full down
the heli at this point tries to spool up for a moment, but brushless motors are jerky so it does not always succeed.
Sometimes you have to repeat the procedure.
Now you can pull TH, just in case, until you are ready to fly.
Credit for this goes to Titan33@rcgroups, I think:
BLHeli compatible ESCs
As stated above the Super CP RX is (electrically) noisy.
The first workaround was to use a filter.
Then T.Hiro@rcgroups patched the firmware: www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25250806&postcount=2103
Here is T.Hiro japanese blog: blogs.yahoo.co.jp/xc90_prog
Apparently with the v3.0 RXs the problem is solved (citation needed).
Generally the preferred motor is the C05M 11500Kv, because usually it works without problems, but it's not very powerful. The stock brushed motor when at its best outperform it, but its performance drops during the flight, while the brushless motor performance is more consistent.
The C05M 13000Kv is more powerful, but can cause problems (see above and search rcgroups) and the flight duration is lower.
The experts on brushless motors appears to be T.Hiro@rcgroups and Sachiho@rcgroups.
Sachiho tested various motors, but apparently not the C05M 13000Kv, see his rcgroups blog: www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=472274
Usually the preferred main gear for the brushless conversion is the Walkera Genius CP Main Gear.
It's slightly bigger, helping to get more clearance from motor to servo, has more teeths, slightly reducing head speed and apparently is of better quality than third party gears.
But see: Tail holding after brushless conversion.
Users generally recommend an 8 teeth pinion over the 9 teeth pinion to allow a higher motor speed without an excessive head speed.
Someone even recommends a 7 teeth pinion, but it's difficult to find.
The brass pinions are loose on the shaft, you will need something like the Loctite 680 retaining compound.
There are 8 teeth plastic pinions that are easy to use because they don't require a retaining compound. The shaft needs to be grinded along the length to avoid slipping.
But see: Tail holding after brushless conversion.
Usually micro helis of this size do not use brushless tail motors.
For better tail holding, for example during flips, people use a 7mm brushed motor.
Sachiho@rcgroups has done extensive tests on brushed tail motors/tail blades combinations:
The combination with more thrust appears to be the FBL100/v922 7mm tail motor + Super CP tail blades. The 7mm tail motor cannot be used with the stock tail motor holder, you have to assemble your own tail (requires soldering) or buy a preassembled one.
Someone uses 2 tail motors: www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=326734
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